Curse

garethporlest18 · Jun 17, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Fun and creative skills, help you do nothing. They are not fun at all. They are a burden and a joke if they aren't powerful to some extent.

You guys want these skills to become less than elites? Less than regular skills even, nerf them into non usage much like the paragon class has been? That's what it seems like, because that's what will happen if you call for a nerf. PvE requires hardly any skill as it is now, these new sunspear skills make it less annoying that's about it. I still use many different builds depending on the area, these skills don't change that one bit. Because I'm not a bot or a drone and I can think for myself.

Chthon · Jun 17, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

1. I must agree that the amount of grind needed for the luxon/kurzick skills is excessive.

2. I haven't played with the skills enough yet to form a concrete opinion what whether they need changed or how.

3. I think you might be over-estimating the usefulness of the assassin skill on assassin-secondaries. I did try it out with my assassin. And while I'm happy to say that crit-barrage is back, I did find the skill dropping a couple of times for lack of a timely critical hit despite running barrage and critical eye with 15 critical strikes. I can't imagine another class sustaining reliably it without relying on a second skill that guarantees a critical hit.

4. So what if the assassin skill is very attractive to assassin secondaries? I'm not sure that's a bad thing. These aren't elites, you know? There's no reason a W/A couldn't use both sunspear skills if they felt like it.

5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

The game does not get better when it gets easy as hell!

You do not have to use these skills. If you think they make the game too easy, play without them. If they really, really bother you, don't party with people who use them. You are in no way hurt by other people who find them fun using them outside of your presence.

Mad King Corn · Jun 17, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

For all you people that seem to think these new skills will kill a lot of enemies at the push of a button please tell me what skills you are using to do that, because I have extensively tested these new skills and I have to tell you that I see no such skills. These skills are powerful yes, but no where near the highly exaggerated levels you people are implying. I still get my ass kicked in HM with them.

The Legg · Jun 17, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Ys the luxon and kurzick titles take a while to max but they have always been like that and now those that have invested time and effort working at these titles are reaping the benefit. Nothing stopped people from working on these titles when factions first came out and I think it is wrong of those in the community to demand an easier way of maxing these titles now we have these skills.

Anet designed these skills to be more powerful depending on your luxon/kurzick rank, so if you dont have a high enough rank to warrant having these skills in your bar then start working on the title or simply dont use them.
To make them link in with primary attributes is just a silly and selfish attempt by many people here to have anet hand them what they dont want to work for.

Dont come on here whining and moaning about how unfair it is, because it isn't.

You want something worthwhile you goto work for it.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 17, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

If i didn't read this thread i wouldn't have got upset. Why?

Just realised thanks to Sectus

that rank 1 in the faction title isn't enough grind to get the skills, i have to grind millions of points to get a maximum efficiency triple shot on my ranger.

Feedback: Drop the faction required or drop the damage reduction for each arrow to make it worth the grind required to "eventually" get the skills.
Even increasing the faction for the monsters in normal mode would be better. Getting rid of the 125pt cap for bosses would be a start. Make it climb in increments... 125, 250, 375, 500 etc
I don't know if there is, but a big bonus for clearing an area would be nice.

I like the skills, i like them alot infact and certainly don't want to see them degraded in strength, I just wish it was less impossible to get them.
I've got about 35k faction since the update, admittedly i'm not grinding in overdrive but the finish line is far from my sight.

Urgh, got to stop posting. I sound depressed, lol.

Ensign · Jun 17, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Why do we need a hard mode, when we get such skills. The game does not get better when it gets easy as hell! This is short-lived fun.

That was the impression I got when I picked up these skills as well. That they were going to be 'fun' for their ability to mindlessly destroy everything, but all they're ultimately destroying is any depth left in the PvE experience.

If these are the vision A.Net has for the future of Guild Wars PvE, I want nothing to do with it.

Peace,
-CxE

DeBron · Jun 17, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

The ritualist skills just seem like they're normal skills that could have been part of PvE and PvP. They're not class-changing like Critical Agility or Cry of Pain.

Vampirism is just a shade above Bloodsong. Summon Spirits doesn't even heal spirits like Shelther and Displacement enough to let them take another two hits.

My suggestions include making vampirism do 35 dmg at R10 and have Summon Spirits give X seconds of +X health regen to spirits as opposed to healing.

Sectus · Jun 17, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

3. I think you might be over-estimating the usefulness of the assassin skill on assassin-secondaries. I did try it out with my assassin. And while I'm happy to say that crit-barrage is back, I did find the skill dropping a couple of times for lack of a timely critical hit despite running barrage and critical eye with 15 critical strikes. I can't imagine another class sustaining reliably it without relying on a second skill that guarantees a critical hit.

A W/A would just use Wild Blow to sustain it. Doesn't Paragon also have similar attack skills which always deal a critical hit? And Dervish deals AoE damage which greatly increases the chance to do critical hits. I suppose Ranger/Assassin aren't as lucky though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

4. So what if the assassin skill is very attractive to assassin secondaries? I'm not sure that's a bad thing. These aren't elites, you know? There's no reason a W/A couldn't use both sunspear skills if they felt like it.

Because they were supposed to encourage playing under-used classes. The assassin skill is great for all fighter classes so that doesn't exactly encourage people to take an assassin. The paragon skill can also easily be used via other classes, so people aren't encouraged to take a paragon. The only class which got lucky are mesmers, because Cry of Pain is harder to use for other classes and it's a very powerful skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Legg

Dont come on here whining and moaning about how unfair it is, because it isn't.

You want something worthwhile you goto work for it.

When I play a game, I except to be able to play with all the weapons and skills without putting an insane amount of time into it. I do think that playing for 2666 hours is a bit excessive for being to use the allegiance skills properly.

Imagine Doom preventing you from picking up the rocket launcher unless you've played the game for a total of 2666 hours. Would that be fair?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Just realised thanks to Sectus

You're welcome

No reason to be depressed for posting complaints about this. The more vocal we are, the higher the chance that Anet will realize this is something which truly needs to be fixed.

Guardian of the Light · Jun 17, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Well don't really NEED to make it so ONLY primary classes can use the PvE instead we can link some of the new skills to their primary (like the seed monk skill).

For example you could change the Paragon skill to scale duration-wise depending on leadership.

So it would be 1 +(1 for each point in Leadership) and mybe you could increase the recharge to 20. I know this would mean you couldn't keep it up on the party 24/7 on your own but THEN parties would have to bring 2 paragons to keep it up all the time making them much more accepted

.

AlienFromBeyond · Jun 17, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sectus

A W/A would just use Wild Blow to sustain it. Doesn't Paragon also have similar attack skills which always deal a critical hit? And Dervish deals AoE damage which greatly increases the chance to do critical hits. I suppose Ranger/Assassin aren't as lucky though.

Uh, how about Barrage?

Stormlord Alex · Jun 17, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Bhavv... Ensign *has* played PvE. He probably knows more about PvE than... well... a lot of people

Anyways, on-topic... Meh.
I'll try out the skills some more as Arashikei, if they make PvE even easier, then... I'll equip them if I feel lazy, or ignore them if I want a slight challenge.
Tbh, I really don't think 'balance' comes into this - A-Net's vision of PvE is all about big numbers, with little tactical depth. When a Margonite Anur or Ele boss totally wtfpwns you in one spell, who gives a sh*t about balance? This is just the player's answer to overpowered retards.

wolfren · Jun 17, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

i have been loving useing everlasting avatars+critical agility but then some people say that the derv skill shoulden't recharge avatars. well 2 reasons is that first if it didn't recharge avatars whats so good about it? and second why you think it's called eternal aura?

Divinus Stella · Jun 17, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

With these skills its like playing doom with noclip and godmode, very funny for 10 minutes, then you start getting really bored once nothing presents a challenge.

Swift Thief · Jun 17, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Intensity should be 10 energy, 20 recharge, and last 20 seconds.

Shadow Sanctuary should have a 25 recharge.

Triple Shot should have a recharge of 6.

Never Rampage Alone should be 15 energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Critical Agility and the Paragon skill need serious tweaking.

Those skills are just fine, no need for tweaking.

Deleet · Jun 17, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That was the impression I got when I picked up these skills as well. That they were going to be 'fun' for their ability to mindlessly destroy everything, but all they're ultimately destroying is any depth left in the PvE experience.

If these are the vision A.Net has for the future of Guild Wars PvE, I want nothing to do with it.

Peace,
-CxE

I have to agree with that. Anet has chosen a new route for their game, I'll give them the very last chance with GWEN..

Apollo33 · Jun 17, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

IMHO, they should either link the Factions skills to an entirely new skill track (which would be like the sunspear title track) or boost the Faction you get from kills in all modes. I cleared Melandru's Hope and only got like 3.3k faction in Hard Mode and that takes a while. Fast Faction Farming is only available to Kurzicks, and even then finding a team can take some time. Fort Aspenwood has never given that much faction.

What's so wrong with making these titles easier to get? Lucky titles are easier to get now, since they're actually NEEDED to boost the lockpick chance. Sure, it might have taken someone ages to reach the max level... But that was their decision, and they likely got rewarded in some way (i.e. owning a town.) And granted, we could have grinded these titles from the beginning, but no one ever knew that there'd be skills from this title track.

If ANet changed it so that we got double faction from blessings, that'd be much better. As it is right now, those skills are horrible to try and get... So much grinding is required. What happened to all the people saying "NO! WE DON'T WANT ANET TO RAISE LEVEL CAP IN GW2! GW DOESN'T HAVE GRINDING!"

If this isn't grinding, I don't know what is. Fast Faction Farming CAN bring 10k in under an hour... That's not fair to Luxons. They don't have such an option. What'd be so bad about raising the points in Normal Mode to 20 points per enemy (up to 500 extra per boss) and then double that for Hard Mode? Some Kurzicks that FFF can just put 1000 hours in and get the max title anyway. If that's the case, why can't ANet just make it easier for everyone else?

FFF doesn't require killing of any enemies... Just running around the map. ANet should seriously think about how these titles are organized and how points are given out.

I say give insane amounts of points for killing foes. That actually takes effort. Especially in Hard Mode, where there aren't any wurms. The Allegiance rank was probably the WORST thing ANet could tie titles too. Then again, there aren't any other titles strictly Canthan, are there?

I'd love to be able to get these skills for my characters and have them be effective. It just takes ages to do so. I love the Sunspear skills, but these just take too much time to get and make effective.

Edit: Oh, and I think ANet should realize that large number of the guilds focused on Faction Farming to keep their towns use this title for such purposes. There's now no way for them to tell what the member is using faction for. The guilds trying to keep towns are now going to have a tough time with dishonest members. There'll be no way to tell who they are.

Longasc · Jun 17, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

You do not have to use these skills. If you think they make the game too easy, play without them. If they really, really bother you, don't party with people who use them. You are in no way hurt by other people who find them fun using them outside of your presence.

What is next, will you recommend me to play table tennis with the left hand and only one eye open to have a fun challenge?

These skills lead to power creep and degenerate gameplay at the same time. They get superglued to the skillbar, you can even combine them. For noobs, they are a help, if you have any brains they wreck the game.

They are in the game, and they will be used. You seem more to care for the fact that you do not have max rank in those skills and probably not even access to the Factions skills at all.

Why can you not play the game without them...? Because you know you want those monster skills. They are better than elite skills. No, that is not good.

undeadgun · Jun 17, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

i think i kinda like the way of the new skills were given, cuz under these amazing skills, more classes will be fit into HM mission/vanquishing, not just SF ele, MM necro and a tank and monk, ppl will considering use their ranger/para/dervish, even mesmer to begin HM. so i kinda like it in the other way. however, i do agree with others bout only primary req on those skills though:P

Kinn · Jun 17, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

A few options available:

...HARD MODE only. If this was the only change, I would grudgingly accept them. If nothing else it would entice a few more people to play HM. Currently, letting a player run essentially 5 elites on his bar completely takes the piss out of normal mode.

Failing that, tying the effects into both rank AND primary attribute would be a good start (like the ss monk skill). If not that, then *gasp* make them elites (and buff those that don't quite meet "elite" status - ranger skills, I'm looking at you)

Orphan Anthem · Jun 17, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Yeah, the Kurz/Loxon titles are WAY to grindy for them to be used for this sort of thing, most people wont even have the first level